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neer renounces ZionismHelena, pls clarify-are you in favor of a 2 state solution or the return of Palestine to its true owners. I need this data to counter my zionist "friends"
Posted by Phillips Brooks at August 5, 2009 01:47 PMSalah,
Jews were massacred in Iraq during WWII. The events is known as the Farhud.
Phillips Brooks,
The right to seek refuge where refuge is made available is a basic - in fact, perhaps the most basic - human right. Ergo, your suggestion that Jews have no right to live in Israel places you in opposition to likely the most basic and important human right that exists.
Helena,
Citing to Pappe is not much to go by for your assertions. I recall his position that he is not bound by facts which, to me, means he is a propagandist, not an historian.
Now, serious histories of Israel's founding do note that, in fact, there were Arabs who were expelled and those who fled. Your history, though, appears to overlook that the Arab side (a) started the fighting - as shown by Benny Morris, among others - and (b) aimed not only to prevent the establishment of Israel but to drive Jews off - again, Benny Morris and others.
Further, the Arab side's leadership as well as a fairly substantial part of the population was bathed in blood, as in they sided with the Nazis. The leader, Amin al-Husseini, made a pact with the Nazis to, in fact, exterminate the Jewish population of Israel, a plan that was implemented but, due to the defeat of the Nazi army, was defeated.
Which is to say, the Israelis owe nothing to the Palestinian Arabs who sided with the Nazi lover al-Husseini. Rather, Arabs lost their war of extermination and lost their war to ethnically cleanse the country and, as a result, suffered the consequences. The rest, frankly, is simply bad history that negates the negative aspect of the role of Arabs in the dispute.
Posted by N. Friedman at August 5, 2009 04:55 PM"The right to seek refuge where refuge is made available"
Made available by whom?
There's no right universal or otherwise to open up someone else's house to guests.
Amusing that you posted a critique of Zionism at TPM.
JMM who calls the founding of Israel "a necessary crime."
It surprised me when I found out a while ago that Avnery wants Jews to be able to live by themselves. Israel without Arab's will be poorer for it, just as Germany is without Jews, and would be without Turks. It's the same Germanic racialism and more disgusting than ever in the 21st century. And liberals are proud to support the two state solution as if it weren't racist by definition. Acquiescing to it is something else.
For adults a bi-national state is the only logical and moral choice. But there are no adults.
Salah,Jews were massacred in Iraq during WWII. The events is known as the Farhud.
Ohhhh ………..yeah bla...bla..bla.
Go read my post well Jews lived in peace in Iraq as an Iraqi had a first hand experiences with many very closed family friends, also don’t forgot Jews lived in peace in the Islamic world, when they massacred in the western world till the Zionist crated 2000 dream, we knew that.
I can point you to references who was behind those killing in Iraq but I don’t have it in hand now
BTW, Welcome back our Hasbara who is neither Israeli Nor Jews" as he told us.
Which is to say, the Israelis owe nothing to the Palestinian Arabs who sided with the Nazi lover al-Husseini.
N. Friedman, do you think Hitler without the Mufti’s help, the Jews will be not in Holocaust?
What a lie enough these leis man, Hitler’s hat race list put Arabs just one step-up from Jews.
So what you say about Italians, they supported Hitler and fought with his all along do you hate them our Hasbara N. Friedman?
"Further, the Arab side's leadership as well as a fairly substantial part of the population was bathed in blood, as in they sided with the Nazis. The leader, Amin al-Husseini, made a pact with the Nazis to, in fact, exterminate the Jewish population of Israel, a plan that was implemented but, due to the defeat of the Nazi army, was defeated."
This is simply cheap propaganda.
As a matter of fact the links between Zionists and Nazis were much more important than the mufti nonsense. This is unsurprising: not only were Zionists from the same European Culture but those in the Revisionist school were, and remain, fascists.
Arab culture never produced a real fascist movement for reasons which, again, are fairly obvious.
As to, who 'started the fighting,' the British Mandate authorities, under whose auspices zionism had flourished and who tended to be sympathetic, as 'progressives' and colonialists, to the zionists, had no doubt of the source of the waves of terrorism which ended in the nakba.
Modern Israel is dominated, politically and intellectually, by the descendants of Jabotinsky's fascism. So, unfortunately, is much of 'western culture.'
Seventy years ago we knew better: these are suicidal cults, bloodthirsty and irrational, they destroy the societies which produce them. And much else besides.
Justice for Palestine is essential not only for the Palestinians and the Israelis but for north America and Europe too. That this is so is particularly evident in the United States where the rule of law and the constitution are almost dissolved, by double standards, impunity and contempt for civil and individual rights. But the same corrosion is occuring in Canada, where the legal system is being colonised by the, sub-intellectual cousins of a, Federalist Society which has cast aside what Madison, Jay and Hamilton wrote in favour of Carl Schmitt's inspirations. Which is why there is a prison at Guantanamo and why young Mr Khadr is rotting there still.
@bevin,
You say: "Arab culture never produced a real fascist movement for reasons which, again, are fairly obvious." While Zionist leaders are of the same European fascist school.
But how come that every Arab country is a dictatorship and Israel, the state established by the Zionist, gives rights to its minorities that even Arab countries don't give to their fellow Arab citizens?
What "fairly obvious" reasons are you referring to? The flourishing democratic countries of the Arab world?
You complain about American jails while Palestinians are sitting in ... wait for it ... Palestinian jails just because they belong to a rival faction. No American is in jail because he's a Republican or Democrat. What powers and rights can Arab citizens exercise to hold their Arab governments accountable? I bet the number of cases Israeli Arabs won against their government in the Israeli Supreme Court is higher than the number of cases Arabs won against their governments in the 20 plus Arab countries.
But forget all that?
Posted by read a bookYou lie like a rug
Posted by s.e. at August 6, 2009 02:17 AM